CRB

[ste p]

Got to say, I'm really disappointed the SWPP don't act as an umbrella organisation any longer for members to obtain CRB checks.
When I spoke to the office a couple of weeks ago, they told me they believe schools don't regard photographers as a high enough risk to warrant a CRB.
My wife's a schoolteacher and her headmistress said I wouldn't get through the door without a CRB in her opinion.

Steve

[Phil Jones]

We would be more than happy to continue to provide this service as we consider it of such importance.  However the government has radically changed the rules regarding ‘self employed’ and their eligibility for CRB checks.  A new service is said to be in the offering though as yet we have not received details. 

[Paul Hurst]

I read an article recently in Professional Photographer (I think) in whcih the author was saying that contractors (photographers) would not normally require a CRB check, as the work is not classed as a position of regular unsupervised access to vulnerable people (don't quote me).

Not sure about the standard CRB check, but I believe enhanced CRB checks are not portable, so only apply to the organisation that requested the check.  You would not be able to use the CRB check across LEAs as an example.

I will gladly bow to other people's superior knowledge on the subject though.

Paul

[Terrie Jones]

CRB have informed us that if you contact your local police station they will be able to do a standard check that would be sufficient for photographing children.

[Paul Berry]

I do some work with the North East Young Enterprise organisation taking business into schools, they did me a full CRB check which allows me to work in any school, which technically means it's portable.  I am aware that generally they're not because they're attached to an 'umbrella' organisation.

However, I have my certificate, I have been checked.  If anyone asks, and they're not satisfied and require another check done they can pay for it, as far as I'm concerned I've been checked.  Personally I just think this is just another method of taxation.  If the CRB people have you on there files as being checked, then you're checked.

From a legal perspective, as far as I'm aware there is no legal requirement for the likes of 'photographers, plumbers, electricians, etc' to be checked even though occasionally they may just happen to be on the same planet as children.   

[David Ashbourne]

Paul

While I mostly agree with your comments, you are only checked up until the point the CRB is issued.  I require an enhanced CRB to run my karate classes which are predominantly attended by children.  My CRB was done a few years ago now and should really be renewed as there is the possibility that I could have acted unlawfully between then and now.  I haven't BTW I'm squeaky clean 

Dave

[Paul Berry]

In a lot of respects it is similar to an MOT and is only valid until the point of issue, however at least an MOT gives proves vehicle a reasonable chance of making it through another year.  CRB however prove nothing, as they cannot account for character, they can only prove that you're not in or on the 'criminal' information grid.  However, that's all they prove....a guilty party who has not been caught and has a CRB check and who if asked would never own up and tick the boxes for the check anyway is just as inncent in the eyes of the law as you an I.

Just like the form you fill in to enter America which says..."Are you entering the USA with the intention to commit acts of terrorism"  no terrorist with half a brain cell would own up to that.

I disagree entirely with the concept of having to 'buy' proof of innocence, since every week I'm reading in the Photo press of how photographers are being, hastled, harressed, arrested etc by police simply for doing there job and trying to earn a decent living.  If someone wants to know you're innocent...let them pay for the service.

As you can see I have a rather controversial viewpoint in this, so I'll not rant on.....

Paul

[Juan Salgueiro]

A quick note on CRB in Scotland as the system is different up here. I was told (rightly or wrongly) by someone in the MPA to get a CRB done if I wanted to take part in some of their promotions. They were willing to do it for me for a fee through the Liverpool CRB office. This would not be valid in Scotland so I went through Disclosure Scotland instead. This means that it IS portable as they effectively sponsor you in the same way a prospective employer would, with the exception that you do not work for them, so you can take it anywhere. The law will be changing up here in a few years (3 or 4) and the whole thing is going to be standardised so that they last a set amount of time, after which they expire. This could well be used as a guinea pig/model for the rest of the UK. I have since been told though, that I would be far better off getting a female assistant than a CRB as I will not be alone with the children but would be with them and their parent(s), who could make all sorts of claims against me if they so wished. Sounds paranoid, but I can see the point with the good old British press whipping the public up into a paranoid, litigious frenzy.

[Celynnen Photography]

I collect CRBs.

I got one when I started working for an agency that works with children.
Got one when I did my coaching course.
Got one when I started working in school.
Got one when I started a Uni course that involved children.

[William]

I get the impression that the CRB system is as reliable as other arms of the government, and that means not at all.  I haven't seen a CRB certificate for a while but at the last view, they say "none found" - which really inspires confidence.  Several friends and acquaintences have fallen foul of the system.  One suffered such a delay that the school that wanted to employ him simply gave up waiting and hired another teacher.  Another was given a certificate with half a dozen entries that turned out to belong to someone else with a similar, but not identical, name.  Yet a third had suffered damaging allegations from vindictive students that although unproven, managed to get onto his certificate as if they had been convictions.  Removing them was a nightmare for him.

I see the CRB as yet another example of "Lucifer's inversion", where the authorities give convicted offenders pathetically lenient sentences and then punish or inconvenience innocent citizens instead!  If the judicial system had clamped down hard on those who have abused youngsters, there would be no need for this CRB nonsense.  Similarly, Switzerland has the largest number of legally held guns in private posession and the lowest rate of gun crime, per head of population.  The UK is near the other end of the league table for both.  When ITV admitted it had defrauded viewers of £8 million in the phone-in scam, no-one was prosecuted or even cautioned.  Park in the wrong place or for too long and it will cost you dear.

[Paul Berry]

Although many will no doubt pride themselves in being British, living and belonging to the golden isle, I am convinced that we are fast becoming a police state, governed by wishy washy liberal politicians yet policed by zealot civil servants and that new brand of 'tax collecting policeman'.  Sorry about the gloomy outlook but it is merely an observation from a photographers eye view.

Paul

[William]

After wasting a couple of hours doing a pointless written fire "risk assessment", maybe I should add a gripe about the ever heavier burden of regulations and other "red tape".  Paul is dead right about the police state.

A few months back in an international gathering hosted by a well-known Association that restricts membership to full-timers, I compared notes with two colleagues from Holland and Germany.  My prices were higher by quite a margin, but my net profit considerably less.  The reason?  Higher costs for materials, energy and overheads, especially costs of regulation and taxation.  And the Government says they want Britain to be competitive!

[Juan Salgueiro]

Don't get me started on rip-off Britain. I recently found out that my album manufacturers charge the same in Australian dollars for their product at home as they do in pounds if you buy from overseas! Add Adobe to that as well with their lame arguement that they have additionalmarketing costs for Europe. What marketing costs? They've got no real competition!

Grrr (goes green and rips clothes...)

[Christina Lauder]

To me a CRB check does nothing more than give a false sense of security to the naive and over protective parents and gives the government a way of saying 'hey, we addressed the problem by implementing these checks'.  They don't stop anyone who hasn't already been caught and they don't stop anyone who hasn't yet commited an offense.  And the worse part is they don't stop anyone who is caught after they've received a clean CRB check.  I don't feel that my children are any safer.  But I do feel like I have lost a lot of money in my own CRB checks and our taxes that are paying for the CRB checks done in schools. 

Unless there is a way of contacting the organisations with whom the CRB checks are registered to inform them of any future offenses I think they are a complete waste of time. 

By the way, schools, sports clubs and dance classes are part of my business and I have only been asked for a CRB check once and even then I didn't have to show it.  I just told them I had one. 

Regards,
Christina

[Paul Berry]

Hey Juan,

So can we have a picture of you green?

Now it's not all bad...become a politician, then you can vote yourself a pay rise big enough to dwarf all of the taxes!!